US’s Frankenstein: Saddam’s Iraq

Iron Soldier · 04-11-2003, 02:26 AM

I was watching the a documentary bent on the truth behind the US history of involvement in Iraq, and then doing nothing to prevent what Iraq has amounted to; being a cocky & ignorant power they soon realized their dumb mistakes and start a war; Gulf War 2.

But don’t get me wrong, I wanted Hussein do be gone; killing his own ppl. But war was unnecessary; if not so, at least wait for the UN to legalize the freakin’ war on a strong basis of the necessity to attack; so the liberal populations of the world wouldn’t protest or complain. Nevertheless the Arab world would anyway.

To back up my view, I made mental notes while watching that documentary (from the CBC, Canadian network).
1980s the enemy of the United States of America was not Iraq, but Iran. Iran had a political revolution, replacing the shah of Persia with the Atoyallah, Muslim spiritual leader. The embassy of the US is stormed; American diplomats & guards loyal to the shah are trapped. The US has contempt for such actions; relations are stiffened as the USA is called the “great satan”.

1989, Iraq attacks and declares war on Iran. The US gladly supports Iraq, to fight Iran, supporting a politically set dictator against Muslim elements and extremism. The Americans supply bombs, equipment and technology for development of long range rocket bombs and chemical/biological weapons of mass destruction. After the war, a cease-fire is signed; the US sends billions of dollars to the Hussein. Hussein takes the money and starts his construction of Iraq’s arsenal.

The US president responsible for all that: Ronald Reagan, Republican leader. His government is well aware of Hussein’s track record and what he is capable but they didn’t expect the future. First of all a dictator can never be trusted, any dictator, king, communist even. They make weapons and armies to make an empire and a legacy to be remembered for ages. What were they expecting? The world isn’t all US friendly, just almost same thing happened in Afghanistan, they support them against Soviets, then they start terrorist camps, and the US goes and scorches Afghanistan for 9/11.
The US obviously uses nations for its own purpose, most of the time; they do have the occasional good deed.

Now look the US goes after Iraq now (first gulf war was justified, morally and politically) in 2003 to stop the Iraqis from using the technology it gave Iraq some 14 years ago, to build more scuds, bio/chem. WMDs. It’s quite ironic, they come to clean up their own mess, that their own ignorance created; created perceptions that dictators can be trusted.

Another point, the US had a chance to kill him. Loitered it away, gave dictator a new chance to rebuild and for more bloodshed.

So u see ladies & gentlemen, the war could have been prevented, in the past by the nation starting it: The US.

TheVerbalAssassin · 04-11-2003, 02:33 AM

And your point is?

urseus · 04-11-2003, 02:34 AM

What an original thread. Cutting edge conclusions there.

ColKilgore · 04-11-2003, 02:44 AM

Hey spam monkey, so it is wrong to 'try and clean up our mess?' Yes, mistakes were made, but we can hope that what is being done now can fix that. Nobody keeps slamming the Brits for Chamberlain appeasing Hitler back in the 30s. No, they remember countries coming together to stop the madness that was attempting to take the world...

maverick514 · 04-11-2003, 03:06 AM

Iron, this point has sbeen argued about 600 times on this forum, and I have lost all my steam, sry, but it can't be argued anymore...

Iron Soldier · 04-11-2003, 03:09 AM

well there should have but even if they stop his appeasement, he would of still conquered Europe, only missing valuable mobilizing time found in the sitzkrieg of WW2.

Iron Soldier · 04-11-2003, 03:16 AM

well there should have but even if they stop his appeasement, he would of still conquered Europe, only missing valuable mobilizing time found in the sitzkrieg of WW2. And I would doubt the Iraq before the war would have the capability Hitler had in conquering the world today. Hussein isn't a dumbass and learned from the past that time and patience can create results, he wouldn't attack the world at this time, sanctions are killing him. Suppose he took the first punch, then I would support the US's stance, but Iraq didn't so I support peace & Iraqi ppl not the Iraqi leader or US.

BTW my point is that the US would of saved its men's lives and many 'collateral damages" in this war if it hadn't interferred in 1989 and create a monster, wanting to use it for its own power. US should be accounted for such actions.

ColKilgore · 04-11-2003, 03:25 AM

Well, I don't know about your little fantasy world, but we haven't created time travelling devices to go back in time and rectify bad situations. No one is argueing against your point; it's just that the arguement is very tired and useless to propagate.

Your head is stuck in your rear...I mean the past. Get it out and look at the now.

TheVerbalAssassin · 04-11-2003, 04:01 AM

Right. It's all about "What can we do today to make the world a better place?"

Iron Soldier · 04-11-2003, 04:05 AM

well for u your ass would be your future. Get it! You're sitting on your face. LOL

I know the past, but I explaining how bad the US's past is with this stuff. What? U want predictions instead of the hard facts of the past? U can't turn to the present, too much propaganda, the smoke hasn't cleared yet.

BTW we learn from the past, act in present, pray for the future.

Cpl. Reynolds · 04-11-2003, 04:09 AM

Interesting thing I heard today on the radio was that was purportedly a CIA report saying that there was a strong likelihood that Hussein's regime was going to collapse in the next 6 months to a year anyways. Of course, I see no other proof of that, and we all know the CIA is pretty clueless anyways. But it makes you wonder if maybe it could have been avoided.

Oh well, it's done with now. Nothing to do but go forward.

Cpl. Reynolds · 04-11-2003, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColKilgore

No one is argueing against your point; it's just that the arguement is very tired and useless to propagate.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

urseus · 04-11-2003, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpl. Reynolds

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

Farm scrap helps build Destroyers!

Picus · 04-11-2003, 04:27 AM

Ya know what there Iron Soldier it would be a hell of alot better if the good old CBC would actually do some work for once and stop taking easy shots at the states.

I couldn't really give two &hits about what the last 50 years of American foriegn policy has done. Clearly we Canadians have come off pretty good from being thier "friend". We all have nice houses and snazzy cars unlike places like Iraq and North Korea.

It's amazing how many silly Canuks I see running around in your pretty clothes talking about how bad the U.S. is, well take a look in your mirrors you silly hippies. It's not the 60's anymore and your not a American hippie sitting at a peace rally smoking pot.

You all spout off hype that the most biased news media in Canada puts out, all the CBC does is spout crab for the current government. Have you heard the latest CBC adds???? Who cares about Americas foreign policy what about ours???

What about my 15 grand in taxes last year not including Gas taxes, GST, import taxes blah blah. Where is all the Canadian money? Why is my dollar worth 67 cents to the U.S.? Why does the PM have 2 new planes at $350 million each and why did he buy them from Bombardier(nice nearly broke company from Quebec)? When is that guy going to leave????

Why are we spending so much money on the not quite French language? Has anyone ever thought the whole reason the PM is not siding with the Americans is because he is protecting VOTES from the Bloc party(Quebec Nationalist's), therefore not "spliting the vote" and insuring another Liberal government?

Get your head and this country in order before we go spouting off any remarks about any other country.

ColKilgore · 04-11-2003, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpl. Reynolds

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColKilgore

No one is argueing against your point; it's just that the arguement is very tired and useless to propagate.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

No one is ignoring the past. The past is very well known. Those who dwell in the mud of the past encrust their boots with it and are slower to move forward...

Gen. Chaos · 04-11-2003, 07:37 AM

I'm sorry but this is lame, we want to take care of the problem and people like you (Iron Soldier) complain about how we shouldn't, then we go to take care of the problem and people like you complain about how we could/should have taken care of the problem long ago. It never ends.....

Fishfinger · 04-11-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpl. Reynolds

Interesting thing I heard today on the radio was that was purportedly a CIA report saying that there was a strong likelihood that Hussein's regime was going to collapse in the next 6 months to a year anyways. Of course, I see no other proof of that, and we all know the CIA is pretty clueless anyways. But it makes you wonder if maybe it could have been avoided.

Oh well, it's done with now. Nothing to do but go forward.

If it had collapsed then Bush would have lost his excuse to get in and grab the oil.

Gen. Chaos · 04-11-2003, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishfinger

If it had collapsed then Bush would have lost his excuse to get in and grab the oil.

If it had, then people like you would have lost their primary excuse for bashing Bush and would have to go back to bashing him for his speaking skills.

Cpl. Reynolds · 04-11-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColKilgore

No one is ignoring the past. The past is very well known. Those who dwell in the mud of the past encrust their boots with it and are slower to move forward...

Bovine colonic extrusions. Bringing up the past is the best way to prepare for the future. No one is "dwelling" in it, people are simply making sure we "remember". You know... like we are supposed to "remember" Pearl Harbor and 9/11. What, we aren't supposed to remember that bad things that WE did to others? I don't know about you, but when I make mistakes in life I remember them so that I can avoid them in the future. That's hardly dwelling, that's just smart.

Cpl. Reynolds · 04-11-2003, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gen. Chaos

If it had, then people like you would have lost their primary excuse for bashing Bush and would have to go back to bashing him for his speaking skills.

What's wrong with that? We learned it from guys like Rush Limburger who routinely insult politicians and political movements he doesn't agree with.

04-11-2003, 02:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
Iron Soldier Staff Sergeant Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 261	US’s Frankenstein: Saddam’s Iraq I was watching the a documentary bent on the truth behind the US history of involvement in Iraq, and then doing nothing to prevent what Iraq has amounted to; being a cocky & ignorant power they soon realized their dumb mistakes and start a war; Gulf War 2. But don’t get me wrong, I wanted Hussein do be gone; killing his own ppl. But war was unnecessary; if not so, at least wait for the UN to legalize the freakin’ war on a strong basis of the necessity to attack; so the liberal populations of the world wouldn’t protest or complain. Nevertheless the Arab world would anyway. To back up my view, I made mental notes while watching that documentary (from the CBC, Canadian network). 1980s the enemy of the United States of America was not Iraq, but Iran. Iran had a political revolution, replacing the shah of Persia with the Atoyallah, Muslim spiritual leader. The embassy of the US is stormed; American diplomats & guards loyal to the shah are trapped. The US has contempt for such actions; relations are stiffened as the USA is called the “great satan”. 1989, Iraq attacks and declares war on Iran. The US gladly supports Iraq, to fight Iran, supporting a politically set dictator against Muslim elements and extremism. The Americans supply bombs, equipment and technology for development of long range rocket bombs and chemical/biological weapons of mass destruction. After the war, a cease-fire is signed; the US sends billions of dollars to the Hussein. Hussein takes the money and starts his construction of Iraq’s arsenal. The US president responsible for all that: Ronald Reagan, Republican leader. His government is well aware of Hussein’s track record and what he is capable but they didn’t expect the future. First of all a dictator can never be trusted, any dictator, king, communist even. They make weapons and armies to make an empire and a legacy to be remembered for ages. What were they expecting? The world isn’t all US friendly, just almost same thing happened in Afghanistan, they support them against Soviets, then they start terrorist camps, and the US goes and scorches Afghanistan for 9/11. The US obviously uses nations for its own purpose, most of the time; they do have the occasional good deed. Now look the US goes after Iraq now (first gulf war was justified, morally and politically) in 2003 to stop the Iraqis from using the technology it gave Iraq some 14 years ago, to build more scuds, bio/chem. WMDs. It’s quite ironic, they come to clean up their own mess, that their own ignorance created; created perceptions that dictators can be trusted. Another point, the US had a chance to kill him. Loitered it away, gave dictator a new chance to rebuild and for more bloodshed. So u see ladies & gentlemen, the war could have been prevented, in the past by the nation starting it: The US. __________________ www.planetboredom.net/forum REGISTER WITH US!

04-11-2003, 02:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
urseus Colonel Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia. Posts: 6,073	What an original thread. Cutting edge conclusions there. __________________

04-11-2003, 02:44 AM	#4 (permalink)
ColKilgore Master Warrant Officer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Great U.S. Posts: 1,079	Hey spam monkey, so it is wrong to 'try and clean up our mess?' Yes, mistakes were made, but we can hope that what is being done now can fix that. Nobody keeps slamming the Brits for Chamberlain appeasing Hitler back in the 30s. No, they remember countries coming together to stop the madness that was attempting to take the world... __________________ Someday this war is going to end. And today, I have seen that end. The Best to all of you! Keep up the good fight!

04-11-2003, 03:06 AM	#5 (permalink)
maverick514 Colonel Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: People's Republic of MA Posts: 6,061	Iron, this point has sbeen argued about 600 times on this forum, and I have lost all my steam, sry, but it can't be argued anymore... __________________

04-11-2003, 03:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
Iron Soldier Staff Sergeant Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 261	well there should have but even if they stop his appeasement, he would of still conquered Europe, only missing valuable mobilizing time found in the sitzkrieg of WW2. __________________ www.planetboredom.net/forum REGISTER WITH US!

04-11-2003, 02:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
TheVerbalAssassin Forum Moderator Brigadier General Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cleveland, Oh Posts: 5,513	And your point is?

04-11-2003, 03:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
Iron Soldier Staff Sergeant Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 261	well there should have but even if they stop his appeasement, he would of still conquered Europe, only missing valuable mobilizing time found in the sitzkrieg of WW2. And I would doubt the Iraq before the war would have the capability Hitler had in conquering the world today. Hussein isn't a dumbass and learned from the past that time and patience can create results, he wouldn't attack the world at this time, sanctions are killing him. Suppose he took the first punch, then I would support the US's stance, but Iraq didn't so I support peace & Iraqi ppl not the Iraqi leader or US. BTW my point is that the US would of saved its men's lives and many 'collateral damages" in this war if it hadn't interferred in 1989 and create a monster, wanting to use it for its own power. US should be accounted for such actions. __________________ www.planetboredom.net/forum REGISTER WITH US!

04-11-2003, 03:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
ColKilgore Master Warrant Officer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Great U.S. Posts: 1,079	Well, I don't know about your little fantasy world, but we haven't created time travelling devices to go back in time and rectify bad situations. No one is argueing against your point; it's just that the arguement is very tired and useless to propagate. Your head is stuck in your rear...I mean the past. Get it out and look at the now. __________________ Someday this war is going to end. And today, I have seen that end. The Best to all of you! Keep up the good fight!

04-11-2003, 04:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
TheVerbalAssassin Forum Moderator Brigadier General Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cleveland, Oh Posts: 5,513	Right. It's all about "What can we do today to make the world a better place?"

04-11-2003, 04:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
Iron Soldier Staff Sergeant Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 261	well for u your ass would be your future. Get it! You're sitting on your face. LOL I know the past, but I explaining how bad the US's past is with this stuff. What? U want predictions instead of the hard facts of the past? U can't turn to the present, too much propaganda, the smoke hasn't cleared yet. BTW we learn from the past, act in present, pray for the future. __________________ www.planetboredom.net/forum REGISTER WITH US!

04-11-2003, 04:09 AM	#11 (permalink)
Cpl. Reynolds First Lieutenant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hiding in a foxhole, protecting my hiney. Posts: 1,923	Interesting thing I heard today on the radio was that was purportedly a CIA report saying that there was a strong likelihood that Hussein's regime was going to collapse in the next 6 months to a year anyways. Of course, I see no other proof of that, and we all know the CIA is pretty clueless anyways. But it makes you wonder if maybe it could have been avoided. Oh well, it's done with now. Nothing to do but go forward. __________________ http://www.planetbattlefield.com/longestday

04-11-2003, 04:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
Picus Chief Warrant Officer First Class Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 978	Ya know what there Iron Soldier it would be a hell of alot better if the good old CBC would actually do some work for once and stop taking easy shots at the states. I couldn't really give two &hits about what the last 50 years of American foriegn policy has done. Clearly we Canadians have come off pretty good from being thier "friend". We all have nice houses and snazzy cars unlike places like Iraq and North Korea. It's amazing how many silly Canuks I see running around in your pretty clothes talking about how bad the U.S. is, well take a look in your mirrors you silly hippies. It's not the 60's anymore and your not a American hippie sitting at a peace rally smoking pot. You all spout off hype that the most biased news media in Canada puts out, all the CBC does is spout crab for the current government. Have you heard the latest CBC adds???? Who cares about Americas foreign policy what about ours??? What about my 15 grand in taxes last year not including Gas taxes, GST, import taxes blah blah. Where is all the Canadian money? Why is my dollar worth 67 cents to the U.S.? Why does the PM have 2 new planes at $350 million each and why did he buy them from Bombardier(nice nearly broke company from Quebec)? When is that guy going to leave???? Why are we spending so much money on the not quite French language? Has anyone ever thought the whole reason the PM is not siding with the Americans is because he is protecting VOTES from the Bloc party(Quebec Nationalist's), therefore not "spliting the vote" and insuring another Liberal government? Get your head and this country in order before we go spouting off any remarks about any other country. __________________ No hippies wanted. Use that rifle you stupid plane camper.

04-11-2003, 07:37 AM	#16 (permalink)
Gen. Chaos Master Sergeant Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 511	I'm sorry but this is lame, we want to take care of the problem and people like you (Iron Soldier) complain about how we shouldn't, then we go to take care of the problem and people like you complain about how we could/should have taken care of the problem long ago. It never ends..... __________________