Commentary: BF2142 is a step backwards

[Caslon]

Noone probably remembers Command and Conquer:Renegade.
Futuristic C&C online only game. For the time it had great future vehicle
gameplay (stealth tanks and even transport helos).
But the individual soldier vs. soldier futuristic gameplay didn't have the gamecode.
Renegade aiming was indistinct and somewhat random. Renegade still had some classes that were effective.

I enjoyed Renegade for 8 months untill BF1942 revolutionized online fps games.

Now BF2142 is on the scene with it's BF2 game engine and its alternate fire super computerized animated graphic screen (all say "tax the gamecode").

BF2142 now has futuristic vehicles (so did Renegade) and many unlocks.

What's missing here? Read above about Renegade.

Blatantly unsmooth and indistinct actual soldier combat aiming and accuracy...much like I described above in C&C:Renegade. Yet...we forgave C&C:Renegade for that... due to the gaming code of the day.

Renegade was from 5 years ago and is to be forgiven it's lack of modern soldier combat game coding. Yet...when I play BF2142...it's like dejavu...Renegade!

I feel with BF2142...That I've stepped backwards in time to a fairly fun game called Command and Conquer:Renegade.
Same strained gamecode (netcode was simpliar back then)...only...BF2142 vehicles and graphics are merely more pretty and cool to look at...just like they were in C&C: Renegade.

Anyone notice how DICE/EA is acting like a used car salesman and promoting all the neat stuff that goes with BF2142? Cool neato new EA stats link....tons of new medals and ribbons to gain.

Anyone here ever visited a used car lot? BF1942's original makers oversight is long absent now.

I'd have been willing to wait another year for BF2142's features.... and new enhanced gamecode/netcode.

[TitanSound]

Originally Posted by Caslon

I'd have been willing to wait another year for BF2142's features.... and new enhanced gamecode/netcode.

Games these days are rarely released with benefit of the gaming community in mind. Games these days are released for the pure profit of it. I refused to buy 2142 for this reason alone. Even when I had made that decision I tried the demo out of pure curiosity and it keep crashing on me.......

[WesFine]

its really not that bad, the gameplay is everything that it promised to be and nothing more. As for the issues with the online aspect, every online game has its issues especially during it's first release. Theres been one patch so far and it was a hotfix, too soon to pass final judgement on.

Games like WoW have proven there is a massive market for MMORPG style games and the ribbons and medals only reflect that. It would be remiss for them to ignore that and not add that to the BF package. Even though it is a FPS with the added ranking system its almost a hybrid style of gameplay MMOFPS if you will.

Is it bad that EA developed 2142 after BF2 and didn't completely finalize BF2 through wack patches? Maybe, but if you dont like it dont buy it. Theres enough good features in 2142 to warrant the purchase imo but there are drawbacks so there does exist the argument to not buy 2142.

Since there is no real alternative to the BF series for this kind of gameplay players will continue to buy 2142. The fact that the volume of players in 2142 and BF2 are beginning to level off show there is a market for it so EA will continue to produce what they can while they have the market cornered.

When other games such as Quake Wars or UT2007 release there will be competition in the FPS market, enough to rival the CSS/BF2 monopoly that exists now. Maybe then we will see a change in trend for EA, we saw that change with Valve when other FPS' began to launch and most likely we will see a change in EA.

The bottom line is that 2142 is more than just playable its appealing to a large audience, as long as that remains true EA will just do its thing.

and in regard to the idea that 2142 is a step backwards, i disagree. I think it was not only a step forwards for EA but also for the BF community. Even though we may not be jumping out of our seats about it, its keeping the BF name out there. That doesn't just benefit EA in a monetary sense, but it also benefits the players in that they will support the 2142 platform and create future BF games or BF style games. I understand "support" and "EA" dont usually go hand in hand, BF:V and the 1.3 patch are obvious examples but you have to think about the game as a whole. Yes there were problems and yes it took a long time to fix them, but EA did it not to support us but keep the BF name afloat which is a lot more than what most gaming companies do for their online games, with the exception for monthly paid games and the such.

What I'm saying is EA will do what it has to, to keep the games playable and thats about all we can expect from any company. I'm not thrilled about it but thats how it is. So you can either decide to ostracize yourself or continue playing a video game, ultimately its your decision if its worth the money. And for the value I can say that I have certainly gotten my money's worth with each BF game Vietnam and all.

[Caslon]

When gameplay gets noticably improved in BF2142, I will be the first one to note it. I'm talking about how DICE made the game NOW and how it's in need of a head butt.

Noone...I mean noone should dish out $49.00 (or whatever) for a BF series game that is this poorly coded.

As it stands now...every major server has to remind Commanders not to move the Titan ship when shields are down...or else get banned.
DICE/EA says there'll be a patch for this at the end of November.

This was a known flaw in the beta.


BF2142 is the first EVER major online fps game in the history of major titles released... costing $49.00, that was a Beta.

[TitanSound]

Originally Posted by WesFine

and in regard to the idea that 2142 is a step backwards, i disagree. I think it was not only a step forwards for EA but also for the BF community. Even though we may not be jumping out of our seats about it, its keeping the BF name out there.

Keeping the name "out there"? All they are intrested in is the money they get from us...the consumer. If they really gave a shit about the "brand" or "supporting the game" then they would have made the changes needed to BF2 before churning out another game.

And you mean to tell me that in 2006 they still cannot get the damn netcode right. The thing that bothers me is that it was a problem in BF2 (and still is) and most people I spek to say the hit detection is rubbish. The few times I did manage to play the game, aiming was all over the place. I am firing into someones chest but no indication I have hit them in my crosshair.

And NO game should need a patch as soon as they release it. That in my eyes is an out and out insult to the people buying the game!

"We could not be arsed getting the game sorted properly before we bothered to replicate the master DVD and put it in its box so you have to download a patch to make the game work properly"

[Caslon]

WesFine would buy a crunshed up crappy made cheesburger and say it's yummy.
Wes...yes you are right..the many will settle for crappy goods.

[TitanSound]

He makes some fair points about the market state at the moment....no real decent rival to EA's shit but that does not mean we should be offered shite for a lot of money.

[Caslon]

2142 will go down in gaming history as a gamecode extended to its max for profit potential. Yoink it to the max.

Besides that...BF2142 is OK gameplay...for a BF2 game engine exceeding its abilities.

[WesFine]

BF2142 is the first EVER major online fps game in the history of major titles released

I'm assuming you mistyped because thats not even close to correct. If you meant what you said, how about a game like CS:Source. One that has had such an impact on the FPS community and is also independently released. BF2 never quite made it to CSS' level and it probably never will and that game is alot older than BF2.

Everyone bitches and moans about how EA is crap and 2142 is crap, BF2 patches are crap. Look if you were right then 2142 wouldn't sell. Is the game perfect? Far from it, believe me I have problems with it. But just as you accuse the masses of jumping on the EA bandwagon you have jumped on the I hate EA bandwagon. If you are such an expert on the subject of netcode then you should also realize how intricate a no limit ranking system is. There will always be problems, those that can only be fixed by trial and error in public play.

The solution is very simple, if you dont like it dont support it. The idea that 2142 is a step backwards from BF2 is wrong. Its the same engine with the same netcode, titan lag and sentry gun resupply and all that other BS are issues that need to be addressed for sure but you claim that invalidates it as a game. Thats just not true, you expect perfection and when its not delivered you come down on top of the game like its garbage. 2142 will eventually overtake BF2 and then it will be the biggest BF game in the franchise. Hardly a step backwards for EA or the game.

Titansound, keeping the name "out there" is word of mouth advertising which translates to sales. If the BF franchise name is promoted, it means more people will buy it. Economics 101. EA has a vested interest in keeping the franchise name in the community, not for the game's sake but for the monetary value it holds.

You guys are just like the WoW players that complain about the server being down for maintenance once a week. There are problems in every FPS its a fact of dynamic online gaming, it will only be resolved with time and nothing more. If the game is not up to your standards then just dont buy it, simple as that. And if what you say is true than more and more people will not buy it and the game dies, much like Vietnam. But if it doesn't die and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger maybe you need to rethink your position otherwise you might as well remove yourself from online gaming altogether

[Caslon]

Wes...I could sail around the world filling a balloon with your hot air.
If you don't support it...don't buy it.

There.

[TitanSound]

Originally Posted by WesFine

Thats just not true, you expect perfection and when its not delivered you come down on top of the game like its garbage.

I expect perfection from a company that have already had thier fair share of chances with the whole "trial and error" reason you give.

I do not expect a game studio that has already been through these problems, and already had a lot of shit talked about them for that exact reason, to get it wrong.
No game is going to be 100% perfect on release but Dice/EA dont seem to get the simple fact that a policy of "make them buy the game then we will sort it out" is unacceptable. You would not accept that in any other industry!!!

And I am not jumping on any bandwagon. I have played 1942 from release and bought Vietnam and BF2. I have made my mind up simply on what I have been presented with.

1) A demo that crashed
2) Crappy patch support
3) £35 on a game that I know has not been polished to a level that it should be at release
4) Bad reviews from people who own the game

The biggest problem with EA is the power they have. They buy up all these great independant studios, wring them dry then either disband the studio or force its staff to become EA employees. They have a shit load of capital for marketing and connections to make sure every gamer on the planets hears about thier products. Why should I buy from a company that is only intrested in profits and not the product they deliver?

[Caslon]

The inconsistencies in BF2142 are too numerous to mention.

BF2 gameplay has the same inconsistencies, but so much less than BF2142.

I repeat my assumption.. that when you go to alternate aim fire....the spiffy BF2 2142 engine brings up a mini pc screen for your alternate fire.

I'm no gaming guru...but I'm guessing these added enhancements tax an already
maxed out BF2 gaming code.

And this is my conclusion...a BF2 engine extended too far to make for spiffy alternate firing screens, along with other jazz...taxes the BF2 game code...to where...DICE is going backwards in the progress of online multi player shooter games.

Which leads me to point above to my original post.

Don't make me tell all that BF2142 is often laggy slow, inaccurate and shitty...whether on Titan mode or Conquest mode.

The main DICE team of BF1942 are all driving mercades, deservidly so.

[WesFine]

Originally Posted by TitanSound

Why should I buy from a company that is only intrested in profits and not the product they deliver?

provide me with a name of one company that has no interest in profits?

Wes...I could sail around the world filling a balloon with your hot air.
If you don't support it...don't buy it.

There.

brilliant, you just said what i just said

And more to the point have either of you played the most current build? If not then you are simply rehashing the statements of others and passing judgment on a product you've never actually used. Kinda like writing a review on a movie based on other reviews of the movie while never actually seeing it.

The demo was just that, a demonstration; hardly an accurate representation of the current game. A demo that crashed all the time yet thousands of people played it till the game launched. And all these horror stories of excessive lag and crashes, yet titan mode is the most popular game mode out of the hundreds of thousands of people that play it.

Think about it, you expect a game to support HUNDREDS of thousands of people with little or no hitches? Thats unreasonable to expect even for a company like EA. And what they drive has nothing to do with 2142, you guys sound like the Anti-Corporation/Save the rainforest crowd, stickin it to the man and whatnot.

What you must consider is the value of the product. Is it worth what I pay for it? Most people believe it is, otherwise they wouldn't play it. Its hard to make people play a video game they dont like.

[Caslon]

We're not talking about brown nosing here...or final sales figures.

Wes...all you have intimated is that this product should not be recalled.

Stop doing that.

[TitanSound]

Originally Posted by WesFine

provide me with a name of one company that has no interest in profits?

Now you are just being picky...

Of course companies are intrested in profit. Some are in it just for the profit some are in it for the profit AND the beleif in their product.

Asshat....

Originally Posted by WesFine

And more to the point have either of you played the most current build? If not then you are simply rehashing the statements of others and passing judgment on a product you've never actually used. Kinda like writing a review on a movie based on other reviews of the movie while never actually seeing it.

I do not need the latest build to pass judgement. I know plenty of people who own the game. I was in clans with some of these people so I know they are not bullshitting me.

Originally Posted by WesFine

The demo was just that, a demonstration; hardly an accurate representation of the current game. A demo that crashed all the time yet thousands of people played it till the game launched. And all these horror stories of excessive lag and crashes, yet titan mode is the most popular game mode out of the hundreds of thousands of people that play it.

Hardly an accurate representation??? For fucks sake man you try and make the demo as close to the game as possible so people know what they are getting when they shell out for it!!!
Of course you cannot judge a game totally on a demo you can at least partly judge it. All those horror stories happend my friend and they put people like ME off buying the game.