Chopper Whore - Stat Padding Issues

[Trident]

Originally Posted by Col_Swelego

Blah blah blah

Dude are you insane? Or are you expecting way too much realism from a video game? Like I said in another post... maybe you should consider playing painball or something?

[Muxje]

Ok, let's take out all the vehicles

No need, vehicles in DC were already fairly balanced, due to portable Stingers. That's what we need, even if they wouldn't be as ubiquitous as in DC.

i mean come on, the helo's arnt any harder to take out then a tank. in fact, i find them easier to take down

Oh bollocks. Even the best tank drivers are vulnerable to rocket launchers who can usually find good cover. Even a mediocre player can take out a tank by himself if he is careful. And yes, the helo will eventually go down, after killing a dozen ground pounders and capping a few bases. They are not invulnerable, but they are rarely brought down quickly, and rarely will you get off more than 2 shots at it before it nails you. Try killing a helo that is not capping flags but just flying high and spraying your bases.

If the helo was that easy to take down, they would be taken down more often, don't you think?

Just check the scores: tank drivers do as well as other players on most maps, but on a map with no aa like Mashtuur, the helo jocks often end up with 100+ points and single digit death counts. That is why the matter of balance was called into question.

In any case, at least the quick capping and on board repairs will be addressed in the next patch, it seems. About time.

[slytiger]

Originally Posted by Muxje

Just check the scores: tank drivers do as well as other players on most maps, but on a map with no aa like Mashtuur, the helo jocks often end up with 100+ points and single digit death counts. That is why the matter of balance was called into question.

Dude you need to play mashtur city more often. There are two aa stinger sites located at the far northwest and southeast flags, if you have guys in both you can almost cover the entire map with aa cover. And come on, all you need is a tank on mashtur to take out the blackhawk, even a buggie or two will do.

As of now helos are harder to take down than tanks, and thats a good thing. If it wasnt then bf2 would be a noob game, anyone could do anything without skill. That im sorry is not fun. If you have skill you should be able to kill a bunch of noobs without them killing you. If you have the skill to fly a helo well enough to dodge stingers, missiles, tanks, or even small arms fire then you should have the right to kill the enemy with ease.

Why should we not go back to dc with stingers in a kit, because bf2 is more teamwork oriented. If anyone/everyone can pick up the a stinger out of their kit then teamwork is gone, back to a lone wolf game.

[Cøyøte]

Originally Posted by Muxje

If the helo was that easy to take down, they would be taken down more often, don't you think?
.

They are. They only get the scores they do, because of the reputation people -like you- give them.

"Cant be Killed! Run away! hibbledibibledy!" And unfortunately, people listen.

Choppers are great big flys,.. You know theyre gonna go for the sugar, so you get ready with the poison. But If your going to do it alone you got a problem.
See, everyone complains about the chopper as if it were a singular entity. Its not.
What it is, is a means for 2-3 people to work together well, with minimal effort.
So that -MEANS- (pay attention, this is the part everyone seems to miss), you'll need 2-3 people -on the ground-, to pull him down. This is only going to get done by -gasp!- communicating your intent to your teammates.
You Lone Wolves, who cry to Mom 'cause this ain't your old school 'Quake' game make me ill.

[Trident]

Originally Posted by Cøyøte

You Lone Wolves, who cry to Mom 'cause this ain't your old school 'Quake' game make me ill.

I don't know how old you are, but I'd like to buy you a drink. Right on brother

[Cloud9]

Black hawks are very easy to shoot down with rocket launchers and offer you more points if people are flag caping. Snipers with unlocked 50 cals can shoot out the pilot with one shot and repeat if people are pressing f1.

I for one think flag caping is a great way to experience true squad teamwork out of BF2. I haven't come across more teamplay from anything else over being in a black hawk or other transport chopper full of 6 squad members all cooperating and communicating over VOICeIP as one entity. I fly a lot of the attack choppers but when in a transport chopper I am usually the engineer repairing constantly. Anyone who has been an engineer in the back of a chopper knows how easily you can be blasted out of the chopper. You basically have a sign on you that says hey i'm hanging out of the chopper exposed shoot me! Black hawks and the like are balanced already. Anyone with a car on the ground with a 50 call will shoot down a black hawk very fast even if the chopper has 4 engineerins constantly repairing. If the chopper doesn't leave it'll be dead in a flash maybe a little less fast with 4 engineers. Remember the chopper and jets are considered "light armored vehicles" and therefore don't take as much to shoot down as tanks(heavy armor). tanks take 3-4 rockets from an anti-tank kit, but chopper might only take 2-3 depending on if there is an engineer onboard. IF you do hit the chopper with just one rocket you'll most likely shoot out atleast one of the engineers onboard.

I wish EA/DICE would leave transport choppers alone. For me it's going to take away a lot of the great teamwork experience that was once part of the almost defensless transport choppers. There will still be choppers full with engineers repairing at a slower rate with the new 1.3 patch and I suppose you can parachute out with your team, capture the flag fast and have the chopper pick u back up, but thats not as fun.

[Muxje]

You Lone Wolves, who cry to Mom 'cause this ain't your old school 'Quake' game make me ill.

Blahblahblah. And maybe, just maybe the Dice people get together every now & then to play this game, and thought: "Hmm... capping flags and scoring points in the BH is perhaps a bit too easy".

I wish EA/DICE would leave transport choppers alone. For me it's going to take away a lot of the great teamwork experience that was once part of the almost defensless transport choppers.

Repairing a chopper by virtue of your presence and picking up easy assist points is not my idea of "teamwork". Neither is strafing a base and capping the flag in mere seconds. Teamwork means having to occupy a flag for a short time, with a couple of buddies covering you.

[Cøyøte]

Originally Posted by Muxje

Repairing a chopper by virtue of your presence and picking up easy assist points is not my idea of "teamwork".

*sigh* again, the Engineer doesnt repair the chopper just by sitting in it.
He does actually have to move to a position where his kit is available, and utilize it.
Much like the miniguns dont shoot you automatically, someone actually has to man them, and aim.
Both positions expose them to the enemy.
Some can deal with it, some can't.

It would be nice to see a post by someone who knew details about the aspects of the game theyre slamming tho.

[Muxje]

I don't disagree with any of that (including the last sentence). Choppers are by no means invulnerable.

However I still think that they are too hard to down, and cap flags too fast, compared to any other vehicle, all as evidenced by the usual scores on the board. This is what Dice will address in the patch.

[Cøyøte]

I dont argue that theres an imbalance,.. I just disagree that the problem is the chopper(s).

Anyone reading this is aware of the complaints surrounding the 'stinger' emplacements tracking (Or lack of ) capability.

If the stingers worked as advertised, then the game balance would -BE- there.

it just -boggles my goddamn mind-, how little I read that in forums tho. Its like everyone agreed thatand Im doing this as a perspective of a 'grunt' in the field)

"Fukkit. The gov'nmint gave us a crappy piece of hardware to work with. Well Gov'mint sux anyways. They can go take down they own damn chopper"

Well, instead of gimping the 'not-problem' how about we address the 'problem' first and move forward from there?

[TitanSound]

I agree.

The AA emplacements are horrible even at close range and the right angle.

[Cloud9]

If they are going to gimp the choppers then give us the black hawk chopper advertised on the back of our BF2 copy that has missles on each side. And to the person who said it takes mere seconds to cap flags with a squad of 6...it takes the same amount of time on the ground. You act like flags turn faster in a chopper. It's not hard to down a chopper btw...its easier than a tank. It's hard as hell sometimes to shoot people on the ground with the on board mini-guns on black hawks...it all takes skill and being in constant communication with the pilot...teamwork is needed.

[Cøyøte]

Originally Posted by Cloud9

It's hard as hell sometimes to shoot people on the ground with the on board mini-guns on black hawks...it all takes skill and being in constant communication with the pilot...teamwork is needed.

Thats the part thats missed by the crew on the ground... See, here the psychological side of it:
In the chopper, your much more obviously aware of your teammates around you, even if youre complete strangers.

On the ground, even those in the samesquad dont have that sense of awareness of where your teammate is,..the need for teamwork is even more imperative, but its overlooked and lost if anyone loses their nerve.
In the chopper, thats not going to happen as frequently.

[Trident]

Honestly... everyone is doggin' the chopper. BUT it is no different than a APC. Load up an APC like a chopper and you can take flags just as easy. It takes about the same ammount of hits to take it out. So what is the difference? Lets take out ALL the choppers and APC's in the game.

I'm so tired of this debate. When it comes to it... all the people that are pissed off the most are the lonewolfs. And if you're not a lonewolf... you're just playing on a server that sucks ass on team work.

The choppers WILL FLY THE HELL AWAY when you shoot at them. I swear it! It is impossible for me to make that shit up. So next time you see a helo coming... SHOOT at the dam thing

[Muxje]

Load up an APC like a chopper and you can take flags just as easy.

Please do so next time... 5 easy kills for our team in the bag! An APC can not dodge a missile as easily as a chopper, and an APC sitting next to a flag is often easy meat for a spec ops.

It takes about the same ammount of hits to take it out. So what is the difference?

The difference is that it is a lot harder to actually hit the chopper, even with 3 antitanks on your squad and others calling out the position of the thing. On an APC, pretty much any shot is a hit. Oh, the chopper does suffer a few hits and starts smoking, but usually at that point it takes off over the rooftops, to repair and then try again at the next flag. A badly hit APC rarely makes it out.

If the stingers worked as advertised, then the game balance would -BE- there.

Agree 100%, as well as beefing up the damage done by ground based weapons (as suggested in another thread). By all meave the choppers viable for some good team work, just let us ground pounders get some payback every now and then. I don't mind as long as the balance is restored

In addition, the imbalance is not universal, but notable on a few select maps, especially Mashtuur.

[Trident]

Originally Posted by Muxje

The difference is that it is a lot harder to actually hit the chopper

A chopper hovering over a flag isn't easy to hit?

[gunfodda]

Originally Posted by TitanSound

Its easy too take a chopper down or at least scare him away.

I have seen the F2 position on an FAV/Vodnik/DPV rip up a chopper. Add too that small arms fire from the rest of your SQUAD (yes teamwork, work together to bring him down) and you are set, you might not always get the kills but if you can scare him away from the area to repair then at least that keeps him busy for a while!!

the best way to give a helo a real scare is to be anti-tank, hide in a good spot, lock onto them and fire one shot. it do much to the chopper but they dont know WHATS fireing at them, with their warning lights going off any good pilot will go into some manuvers and/or get the heck out of there. they fear what they cannot see. simple but efective (specially when your on your lonesome)

[Trident]

Yea and if you're lucky enough to hit one of the door gunners too. I like to aim for the center... just for that reason

[Cloud9]

yeah, it's fun to shoot my AT rockets in the open area where allt he guys are sitting and repairing. knock at least one guy out while giving the chopper damage.