Does airpower ruin the game?

the_bulp · 08-30-2005, 04:53 PM

Maybe this is just sour grapes, I've never flown a jet and only had a bit of experience in helicopters, but I really feel air power ruins battlefield 2. Why?

1. It totally kills the rock-paper-scissors factor of the game. If airpower is scissors there really is no rock. You don't see AA winning most of the confrontations with helicopters and jets.

2. The game is reduced to a single strategy when there are decent pilots on a map, and that is GET IN THAT JET/HELICOPTER/AA GUN OR DIE!!!!! So, what the game becomes is a question of who can sprint the longest and load the map the fastest.

3. Airpower is more or less invincible to anything but AA, so, refering back to number 2, you really have to be in an AA gun or an aircraft itself or you are dead. I don't do much of either, and maybe if I did I'd realize how good tactics could pay off, but AA seems like a brain dead monkey with its eyes closed could operate it do just as well as anyone, and I don't know what possible strategy there could be in airpower (you can't take cover or chose a good position to stay in). So the game turns into nothing more than a bland contest of experience and luck.

4. Airpower is nearly impossible to take down and is usually a thankless job as any aircraft can quickly go back to the airfield and repair. You helped your team but get no credit.

grim reaper · 08-30-2005, 04:56 PM

Fighters kill fighters.

And no It dosnt ruin the game on good servers.

lego · 08-30-2005, 05:11 PM

I can call myself a skilled pilot, I know what i'm doing, and there's very few times that i do get shot down with a good gunner, but i still know you can shoot me down as easily as I can fly around you, it's getting a more than one man effort that takes it down.

Cøyøte · 08-30-2005, 06:21 PM

The point of BF2 is taking and holding territory. A chopper can 'play' at doing that, but a plane never will. At best, it can 'deny the area' for a while.

Any victory concerning territory is won by the grounder-pounders.

slytiger · 08-30-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CÃ¸yÃ¸te

The point of BF2 is taking and holding territory. A chopper can 'play' at doing that, but a plane never will. At best, it can 'deny the area' for a while.

Dude, the f35 just pwned your statement. And yes the point of bf2 is taking and holding territory. You can try to take it but when my bombs stop you dont complain when one of my friendlys takes the flag your entire team was after. Modern combat has many ways to accomplish a task which means that ground vehicles/troops are not the only way to accomplish things anymore.

BenSpazz · 08-30-2005, 08:09 PM

the f35 can take off and land verticaly. but i would NEVER try to take a flag with it an 35 hovering as the juiciest target that an AA gun can have. lol. but u dont have be such a cocky punk about bombing. bombing in the SU's or the 15 takes no skill. the bombs in the fighters takes precision. and even if u are a good pilot, so are alot of other ppl in the game. so dont rub it in everyones face...

Dick_Justice · 08-30-2005, 09:18 PM

A skilled tanker can only achive so much...

A skilled chopper pilot however can achieve a whole lot more.

I wouldnÂ´t say however that Aircraft dominate the game. Sure choppers are powerfull, but theyÂ´re also the No. 1 target for everyone in the opposing team. They sure get plenty of attention.

I must admit though, that the AA ingame is bloody hopeless. Both AA machine guns and stingers can hardly scratch an target. Funny enough, mounted MGs and AT rockets do a good job against choppers. There seems to be little defence against jets though...

Cøyøte · 08-30-2005, 09:52 PM

When i -hear- (never mind 'see') of an F35 hovering and capping a flag, I promise to feel minorly 'pwned' as you put it.
BenSpazz put it well regarding the rest, and in the end, theres always going to be favourite roles everyone like to play.

The point of my statement, was actually defending that the aircraft DONT dominate the battlefield, -not- that they are ineffective, which is where you seem to think I was coming from, (Tiger). Hardly.
Theyre very good at the role they play, yes, clearing out an area for; Your 'ground forces'..which it needs.

the_bulp · 08-30-2005, 09:58 PM

A good point has been made, jets can't take flags, giving them a disadvantage. Aircraft is the king of kills, troops are the king of territory (there are no flags a trooper can't get), and land vehicles are somewhere in the middle. Grim is also right that good pilots on both teams can cancel eachother out a little. However, when I'm killed by a tank I can usually trace it back to my own stupidity somewhere along the lines. I can't seem to do that with jets or choppers.

There's also the blackhawk capping everyone hates. I never really hated this, but some would call this another problem with airpower.

EDIT: And notice how Karkand, the one map with NO airpower is the most popular one?

TitanSound · 08-30-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_bulp

EDIT: And notice how Karkand, the one map with NO airpower is the most popular one?

To be cynical I think its a fave map because:

A: Its a really great map

B: You can rack up points like there is no tomorrow!!

Random Ping · 08-30-2005, 10:44 PM

Airpower has its place, but it can win the rounds without lots of support from infantry. Most pilots will actually become bored if there is no one flying to shoot and end up being infantry anyway, so the balance comes eventually.

jackbauer06 · 08-30-2005, 11:02 PM

if theres a plane there, i will take it. if i know a plane is coming soon, i will wait, but i won't wait forever for one. They are fun to use but you can not stop an invasion (a decent amount of people) on a flag with 1 jet, you just can't. I would rather be on the ground with a shotty.

insinuwait · 08-30-2005, 11:28 PM

without the aircrafts an american war in modern day would just sound stupid. There is NO way in hell we would go to war without our pilots, and not get slaughtered. So, theres a bit of the 'realism' part for you.

Besides, when you shoot a jet out of the air you just get this rush of power that feels so good, whether your in a another jet, or just had something powerful enough to take it out.

rythemagnificent · 08-31-2005, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenSpazz

the f35 can take off and land verticaly. but i would NEVER try to take a flag with it an 35 hovering as the juiciest target that an AA gun can have. lol....

Yeah---I was a MEC guy on the carrier on Gulf of Oman and killed an F35 with one hit from the AT launcher. They're relaly easy to kill unless they're moving.

rythemagnificent · 08-31-2005, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick_Justice

I must admit though, that the AA ingame is bloddy hopeless. Both AA machine guns and stingers can hardly scratch an target. Funny enough, mounted MGs and AT rockets do a good job against choppers. There seems to be little defence against jets though...

If you have a good gunner in the cobra the TV missle will take out the AA before he can fire off any missles or do any damage with those pathetic guns. All that the AA does is annoy the chopper pilot with that red X and the beeping sounds. If the AA is lucky the chopper pilot will be stupid and get stressed out and crash---but when you have that really good pilot/gunner the AA is dead.

jackbauer06 · 08-31-2005, 05:10 AM

the TV is only good with ZERO lag or tons of luck

[BFN] Night Star · 08-31-2005, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Ping

Most pilots will actually become bored if there is no one flying to shoot and end up being infantry anyway, so the balance comes eventually.

Haven't meet them yet.... If i were a pilot haveing the air to myself would be great! I would never get board raining hell down on the enemy.

But I don't, Karkand is great cause of the absence of airpower!

JonFrey · 08-31-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rythemagnificent

If you have a good gunner in the cobra the TV missle will take out the AA before he can fire off any missles or do any damage with those pathetic guns. All that the AA does is annoy the chopper pilot with that red X and the beeping sounds. If the AA is lucky the chopper pilot will be stupid and get stressed out and crash---but when you have that really good pilot/gunner the AA is dead.

I disagree.... On most maps if you are manning stingers or other AA, you pick up a tone on the helos way before you can see them, often from almost clear across the map..... I tend to only get kills using stingers when I can't see the helo lol.... my point is that you can't always beat the AA guys to the punch cause you are nowhere near them when they lock on...

Gort · 08-31-2005, 04:42 PM

No, airpower does not ruin the game.

I remember these exact same arguements regarding airpower ruining BF42.

There is always going to be skilled pilots that seem to own eveything in sight. Practice and experiment, get better is about the only answer.

Heli's are easy to take out. Heli capping isn't as easy as the ground pounders think and if the ground pounders have their act together, then heli's are toast. The machine guns on top of the Hummers etc can do a real number on a heli, toss in a shoulder launch or two and bye bye chopper and with organization (read as teamwork) it doesn't matter how many engies are riding around and repairing in the back. If the ground pounders want to get routed by the BH or any other chopper for that matter, then it's their own fault for not squading up and getting team work going.

I'm not aware of any map where one team gets a plane and the other team doesn't (market garden ring a bell?). There will always be an issue of luck when playing on public servers where one team might have a very skilled pilot and the other team doesn't have anyone that can even get a jet off the ground. If each team has pilots of relatively equal caliber, then the planes usually wind up just fighting each other with the occasisonal strafing run while a plane respawns after being shot down.

08-30-2005, 04:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
the_bulp Corporal Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 171	Does airpower ruin the game? Maybe this is just sour grapes, I've never flown a jet and only had a bit of experience in helicopters, but I really feel air power ruins battlefield 2. Why? 1. It totally kills the rock-paper-scissors factor of the game. If airpower is scissors there really is no rock. You don't see AA winning most of the confrontations with helicopters and jets. 2. The game is reduced to a single strategy when there are decent pilots on a map, and that is GET IN THAT JET/HELICOPTER/AA GUN OR DIE!!!!! So, what the game becomes is a question of who can sprint the longest and load the map the fastest. 3. Airpower is more or less invincible to anything but AA, so, refering back to number 2, you really have to be in an AA gun or an aircraft itself or you are dead. I don't do much of either, and maybe if I did I'd realize how good tactics could pay off, but AA seems like a brain dead monkey with its eyes closed could operate it do just as well as anyone, and I don't know what possible strategy there could be in airpower (you can't take cover or chose a good position to stay in). So the game turns into nothing more than a bland contest of experience and luck. 4. Airpower is nearly impossible to take down and is usually a thankless job as any aircraft can quickly go back to the airfield and repair. You helped your team but get no credit. __________________ That\'s right, my BF2 name is not the_bulp (but it was in the demo)

08-30-2005, 06:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cøyøte Second Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,455	The point of BF2 is taking and holding territory. A chopper can 'play' at doing that, but a plane never will. At best, it can 'deny the area' for a while. Any victory concerning territory is won by the grounder-pounders. __________________ "We are Dyslexia of Borg. All your ass will be laminated" Don't call your ISP when your computer breaks. You dont call the Dept. of roads when your car breaks down, nor the power company when a lightbulb burns out. They dont want to hear it, and neither do we."-Coyote

08-30-2005, 08:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
BenSpazz Command Sergeant Major Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: LaGrange, Ohio Posts: 716	the f35 can take off and land verticaly. but i would NEVER try to take a flag with it an 35 hovering as the juiciest target that an AA gun can have. lol. but u dont have be such a cocky punk about bombing. bombing in the SU's or the 15 takes no skill. the bombs in the fighters takes precision. and even if u are a good pilot, so are alot of other ppl in the game. so dont rub it in everyones face... __________________ My Stats

08-30-2005, 09:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cøyøte Second Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,455	When i -hear- (never mind 'see') of an F35 hovering and capping a flag, I promise to feel minorly 'pwned' as you put it. BenSpazz put it well regarding the rest, and in the end, theres always going to be favourite roles everyone like to play. The point of my statement, was actually defending that the aircraft DONT dominate the battlefield, -not- that they are ineffective, which is where you seem to think I was coming from, (Tiger). Hardly. Theyre very good at the role they play, yes, clearing out an area for; Your 'ground forces'..which it needs. __________________ "We are Dyslexia of Borg. All your ass will be laminated" Don't call your ISP when your computer breaks. You dont call the Dept. of roads when your car breaks down, nor the power company when a lightbulb burns out. They dont want to hear it, and neither do we."-Coyote

08-30-2005, 09:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
the_bulp Corporal Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 171	A good point has been made, jets can't take flags, giving them a disadvantage. Aircraft is the king of kills, troops are the king of territory (there are no flags a trooper can't get), and land vehicles are somewhere in the middle. Grim is also right that good pilots on both teams can cancel eachother out a little. However, when I'm killed by a tank I can usually trace it back to my own stupidity somewhere along the lines. I can't seem to do that with jets or choppers. There's also the blackhawk capping everyone hates. I never really hated this, but some would call this another problem with airpower. EDIT: And notice how Karkand, the one map with NO airpower is the most popular one? __________________ That\'s right, my BF2 name is not the_bulp (but it was in the demo)

08-30-2005, 04:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
grim reaper Forum Moderator Brigadier General Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England Posts: 7,255	Fighters kill fighters. And no It dosnt ruin the game on good servers.

08-30-2005, 05:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
lego Major Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: doomsday Posts: 3,657	I can call myself a skilled pilot, I know what i'm doing, and there's very few times that i do get shot down with a good gunner, but i still know you can shoot me down as easily as I can fly around you, it's getting a more than one man effort that takes it down.

08-30-2005, 09:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dick_Justice Major Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Marl, Germany Posts: 3,350	A skilled tanker can only achive so much... A skilled chopper pilot however can achieve a whole lot more. I wouldnÂ´t say however that Aircraft dominate the game. Sure choppers are powerfull, but theyÂ´re also the No. 1 target for everyone in the opposing team. They sure get plenty of attention. I must admit though, that the AA ingame is bloody hopeless. Both AA machine guns and stingers can hardly scratch an target. Funny enough, mounted MGs and AT rockets do a good job against choppers. There seems to be little defence against jets though...

08-30-2005, 10:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
Random Ping Master Warrant Officer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Evergreen State (at least on the West coast) Posts: 1,293	Airpower has its place, but it can win the rounds without lots of support from infantry. Most pilots will actually become bored if there is no one flying to shoot and end up being infantry anyway, so the balance comes eventually. __________________ It is not important that the glass is half-full or half-empty, but rather how the glass got that way.

08-30-2005, 11:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
jackbauer06 Private 1st Class Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tempe, Az Posts: 120	if theres a plane there, i will take it. if i know a plane is coming soon, i will wait, but i won't wait forever for one. They are fun to use but you can not stop an invasion (a decent amount of people) on a flag with 1 jet, you just can't. I would rather be on the ground with a shotty.

08-30-2005, 11:28 PM	#13 (permalink)
insinuwait First Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,850	without the aircrafts an american war in modern day would just sound stupid. There is NO way in hell we would go to war without our pilots, and not get slaughtered. So, theres a bit of the 'realism' part for you. Besides, when you shoot a jet out of the air you just get this rush of power that feels so good, whether your in a another jet, or just had something powerful enough to take it out. __________________ I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out. - Bill Hicks

08-31-2005, 05:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
jackbauer06 Private 1st Class Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tempe, Az Posts: 120	the TV is only good with ZERO lag or tons of luck

08-31-2005, 04:42 PM	#19 (permalink)
Gort Warrant Officer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Southern BC, Canada Posts: 825	No, airpower does not ruin the game. I remember these exact same arguements regarding airpower ruining BF42. There is always going to be skilled pilots that seem to own eveything in sight. Practice and experiment, get better is about the only answer. Heli's are easy to take out. Heli capping isn't as easy as the ground pounders think and if the ground pounders have their act together, then heli's are toast. The machine guns on top of the Hummers etc can do a real number on a heli, toss in a shoulder launch or two and bye bye chopper and with organization (read as teamwork) it doesn't matter how many engies are riding around and repairing in the back. If the ground pounders want to get routed by the BH or any other chopper for that matter, then it's their own fault for not squading up and getting team work going. I'm not aware of any map where one team gets a plane and the other team doesn't (market garden ring a bell?). There will always be an issue of luck when playing on public servers where one team might have a very skilled pilot and the other team doesn't have anyone that can even get a jet off the ground. If each team has pilots of relatively equal caliber, then the planes usually wind up just fighting each other with the occasisonal strafing run while a plane respawns after being shot down. __________________ 8)Â´