EA responds to fan demands

[PxR|GrimJack]

Originally Posted by Đemðlitiðn Man

I think the community should be able to release patches... EA should hand patch making over to the community it would get done a lot faster.

ummm.......sureeeeee they should

if you think for one second I'm loading a patch to the game that doesnt come from EA your nuts

to many ppl like Toad out there that would screw you up just for the laugh

[Canon]

Originally Posted by PxR|GrimJack

ummm.......sureeeeee they should

if you think for one second I'm loading a patch to the game that doesnt come from EA your nuts

to many ppl like Toad out there that would screw you up just for the laugh

LOL... got that right... also I wouldn't want to be downloading 2+ patches a day either.

[Red MEat]

Originally Posted by LooseCanon

LOL... got that right... also I wouldn't want to be downloading 2+ patches a day either.

But we could turn BF1942 into what Linux is like... Download program... install program.. SHIT need a new RPM from someother FTP site... DL RPM install... SHIT FUCK DAMN IT... it wants me to DL someother RPM. DL and Install that RPM... WHAT?? I have to recompile the Kernel? FUCK It!!! I'll go back to using Windows.

[thunder_or_fd]

Originally Posted by MonsterTrucker87

god, cut them some slack, EA and DICE are doing the best they can, we're lucky that they still even support bf.

My thoughts exactly . BF is a great game and we all love it even with its flaws (you're still here ... arnt you?). I'm not a very big fan of mods to say the least but an occasional game of XWWII is fun - DC is so unrealistic that i dont play it .. maybe in 1.0 .. just maybe... But like i said i prefer BF to any mod any day. If EA/Dice was to mess up support for all you desert combat players in the upcoming patches - then all you have to do is play with an older patch .. very simple. Remember what happened when everyone wanted jeeps to have horns? Well look at Battle Of Britain - the horns have little use but they gave em to us anyway (which im glad). Like everyone says they're the biggest distributor of PC/Console games - so its a tough job. Give them time and you'll eventually get what you want

[Mack-lee]

Originally Posted by thunder_or_fd

I'm not a very big fan of mods to say the least but an occasional game of XWWII is fun.

[Red MEat]

Originally Posted by thunder_or_fd

My thoughts exactly . BF is a great game and we all love it even with its flaws (you're still here ... arnt you?). I'm not a very big fan of mods to say the least but an occasional game of XWWII is fun - DC is so unrealistic that i dont play it .. maybe in 1.0 .. just maybe... But like i said i prefer BF to any mod any day. If EA/Dice was to mess up support for all you desert combat players in the upcoming patches - then all you have to do is play with an older patch .. very simple. Remember what happened when everyone wanted jeeps to have horns? Well look at Battle Of Britain - the horns have little use but they gave em to us anyway (which im glad). Like everyone says they're the biggest distributor of PC/Console games - so its a tough job. Give them time and you'll eventually get what you want

They are the biggest publishers of games.. but if you look only at their tech support you would almost guess they were the smallest... you need a fucking microscope to find it! I mean people are always complaining about MS being a huge faceless software giant... but the difference there is that MS puts as much money and effort in the product support as they did in developing the software... EA DOESN'T!!!! once they have your money they refer you to public forums... I have a e-mail from them telling me to go to 4 different public forums (these are ones they do not run) for a tech support issue. Thats like if you had a problem with a news Ford car/truck you bought and when you took it into a dealership they told you to go to your local Auto Parts Store and see if they knew of a fix.

[[BFN] Tuco]

Thats like if you had a problem with a news Ford car/truck you bought and when you took it into a dealership they told you to go to your local Auto Parts Store and see if they knew of a fix.

OK, this isn't directly on topic, but... Not a good analogy there. Dealerships are NOTORIOUS for "finding" more things wrong with you car- things that really don't need fixing. And dealerships are also well known for over-charging on most repairs. 99% of the time, you actually WILL get better service from a small local mechanic.

And maybe this does have some relevance here... EA is the biggest publisher of games. So... if they did help everyone with tech support and product issues- Would that not take up MASSIVE amounts of time and manpower? Should we really expect a company the size of EA to fix every single "my sound card is making a wierd noise" and "why does this or that not work" issue? And if they don't address each issue- who decides which ones get support and which ones don't?
These days, there are so many different PCs/products/configurations out there- where would EA even start? Each little issue would become a huge task for someone.

This I guess is one point. BUT- this in no way excuses some of the "patches" that have been released for BF and the clearly avoidable problems they have caused.

just some thoughts...

[Red MEat]

Originally Posted by "CrazyD

OK, this isn't directly on topic, but... Not a good analogy there. Dealerships are NOTORIOUS for "finding" more things wrong with you car- things that really don't need fixing. And dealerships are also well known for over-charging on most repairs. 99% of the time, you actually WILL get better service from a small local mechanic.

And maybe this does have some relevance here... EA is the biggest publisher of games. So... if they did help everyone with tech support and product issues- Would that not take up MASSIVE amounts of time and manpower? Should we really expect a company the size of EA to fix every single "my sound card is making a wierd noise" and "why does this or that not work" issue? And if they don't address each issue- who decides which ones get support and which ones don't?
These days, there are so many different PCs/products/configurations out there- where would EA even start? Each little issue would become a huge task for someone.

This I guess is one point. BUT- this in no way excuses some of the "patches" that have been released for BF and the clearly avoidable problems they have caused.

just some thoughts...

So you are saying that NO software company fixes bugs/defects after a release?? You mean what I have been doing for the past 20 years is all for not? Damn I guess my company can save lot of money by laying off all our Support personal. The problems about the sound cards are not little issues by one or two people it has been reported to them by hundreds and is specific to certain sound cards and the reason the problem is present is because they did not do a more through configuration testing of major brands of sound cards. As to different system configurations yes there are thousands but for games it will come down to the OS, DX, CPU, Memory (size), Video Cards and Sound cards and that is very easy to test as I have successfully tested games and have not found the types of basic problems that have been present in BF.

The reason that the problems exsist is because they reduced the QA time by 40% in order to release on time. DICE was working on a patch a full week before the game hit the shelves... I know this because I was working on a DICE game at the same time for another publishers that had simulair problems but our release date was 2 months later then BF so DICE was able to get the fixes in our code base were as EA had to release a patch for BF. It all comes down to the publisher.. they can and do make stupid mistakes more based on money then on quality.

You can either spend $10 on proper SQA before a software release or spend $100 after in fixes and tech support.... EA doesn't want to do either

[Sgt.Thundercok]

What a bunch of whining children. You pussies make me sick.

GIMME GIMME GIMME

[[BFN] Tuco]

Ummm... I didn't say anything like that. Try re-reading... "in no way excuses"...

I'm simply pointing out that due to the size of the company, addressing every little problem people have would be essentially impossible. Simple time and manpower.

The last part of my post addresses the patch issue.

Having looked at the EA forums before, I'm simply pointing out that IN SOME WAYS, the lack of support is understandable- many people immediately jump to flaming and bashing and act like spoiled little brats.

they can and do make stupid mistakes more based on money then on quality.

Well... that is what the PUBLISHER is concerned about. I work for a major textbook pubisher- and we just canned an entire developement house. Why? They consistently missed deadlines and produced poor quality work.
But I guess we shoud have just let them continue, while we (the publisher) lost millions of dollars, eh?

If the publisher does not make money, quality dosen't mean shit- the publisher is out of business.

[Red MEat]

Originally Posted by CrazyD

Ummm... I didn't say anything like that. Try re-reading... "in no way excuses"...

I'm simply pointing out that due to the size of the company, addressing every little problem people have would be essentially impossible. Simple time and manpower.

The last part of my post addresses the patch issue.

Having looked at the EA forums before, I'm simply pointing out that IN SOME WAYS, the lack of support is understandable- many people immediately jump to flaming and bashing and act like spoiled little brats.

Well... that is what the PUBLISHER is concerned about. I work for a major textbook pubisher- and we just canned an entire developement house. Why? They consistently missed deadlines and produced poor quality work.
But I guess we shoud have just let them continue, while we (the publisher) lost millions of dollars, eh?

If the publisher does not make money, quality dosen't mean shit- the publisher is out of business.

Microsoft seems to be able to handle all the problems via their Tech Supprt Department so the "excuse" (that is all it is) doesn't float. I have worked for large and small companies and it all comes down to whether or not a company wishes to invest their profits from the sale of their software back into adequite support. EA fails at this and has done nothing for the past several years to improve it.

Oh yeah the excuse that it isn't the fault of the publisher boo fucking hoo... 9 times out of 10 it IS the fault of the publisher and non the development team because the publisher have set release dates bases on only the foul air escaping from their collective asses and not on what the Development team has been telling them and EA owns this in spades.

Let me tell you something sonny, in the Computer/Console Gaming industry their is a little thing called PRD's, ERD's and TRD's and if a change occurs in ANY of them and causes more time too be spent developing the software it affects each one. So if the marketing pukes decide to add a "new" feature when the game is 80% finished (happens evey single freaking time)what do you think should be done? Can you still release the title on time? The marketing pukes think so and Dev and QA are the department thats gets time taken away from their testing schedual and that is why games and software is released with common bugs/defects. And if the Dev team isn't on schedual you would see this WELL before the release date ever approaches ... if not then the suits in the company are not doing their job in tracking the progress of the devlopment. Come back when you have worked as long as I have in software QA and Development... if you start today you should be ready by 2020.

Also remeber that DICE only got a one time developemnt fee (cost to produce it with some profit thrown in) and they also get paid for any patches they work on for EA... EA on the onther hand continues to make a profit on each game sold... DICE does NOT get any royalties.

[[BFN] Tuco]

Let me tell you something sonny

[[BFN] Tuco]

http://www.gamegossip.com/article.php?id=18

Article: Developer Myths #2
On 07/29/03 by Sam 'Freejack' Brown


It is inescapable. Reading forums or comment boards or news sites, one is bound to come across them, the developer myths. Like urban legends, these myths surround the mysterious art of game development. Most of these myths spring from a misunderstanding of how the development process works. Some, unfortunately, spawn from the bad experiences of gamers. Then there are those that come from the deepest recesses of imagination. My intention with this series is to dispel some of these myths and provide some insight into the often mystical world of game development.
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2. Developers push buggy and unfinished games to market so they can make more money.

This is one of those myths that doesn't even make sense logically. Think about it for a moment, buggy and unfinished games are almost certainly going to get poor reviews and negative word of mouth, which does not generally lead to high sales.

So then, why would a developer ever decide to release an unfinished title? Quite simply, a developer has almost no input into when the title is released. There are a number of factors that go into determining a release schedule and in nearly every case, it is a business decision. For example, the publisher needs to have a particular title on the shelves before the end of its fiscal quarter. This is one of those reasons that is so far removed from development that you just go, "Huh?" There are all sorts of complicated business reasons for doing this, many of which I have little understanding of, but it's usually something about not wanting to draw the project into a new quarter and show another loss without corresponding income.

Another reason has to do with a publisher's marketing schedule. Usually a publisher will start marketing a title long before its release. Marketing for a title has several phases ranging from initial publicity in the form of developer interviews and quick articles noting planned features to trade show demos to what could be considered final marketing such as advertisements in various media such as web, print, TV, and movies, to point of sale marketing like end-caps and posters and shelf placement. All of this marketing is timed for a title's release. Since a marketing budget is usually finite, if a title misses its window, it loses its marketing momentum. A title's marketing is how most consumers know about that title's existence, so if too much time passes between the end of the marketing and when the title hits shelves, it's likely the average consumer will have no idea what the title is. Therefore, it is of great importance and benefit that a title make its window. Unfortunately, this will often mean the title gets released before its ready, but the general feeling on this is, better to release a half finished title with great marketing, than a great finished title with no marketing.

Obviously there are some flaws in that philosophy, as an unfinished or buggy title generally has a very limited shelf life and as reviews come out and negative word of mouth spreads, sales are likely to drop off. Thankfully, there are some studios with "don't release until it's ready" policies, but that is a difficult game to play without the capital to support an extended development cycle.

A third reason is the money issue. A title is given a set budget and expected, within reason, to stick to that budget. There comes a point, though, on a late over budget title when a decision has to be made to release the title now, as is, and patch later, or cancel the project and hope to make up the loss somewhere else. Any time where you have a dedicated team that has already spent several years on a project, there will be significant pressure to at least get the title on the shelf. It's a terrible position to be in as a developer, you know the released product won't be the product you intended, but you want to have something to show for all your time and effort. It's also difficult for the publisher who has to try and market a title he knows will require patches and extra attention from quality assurance. These are all expenses and once again, potential reasons for canceling the project instead of releasing it unfinished.

The myth goes that developers will do anything to make as much money as they can on a title, even if that means releasing it before it's ready. In a way you could say it's accurate, but not because they want to get rich. The reasons are almost always as a way to make something off the title or maybe even break even, the only alternative being to cancel it outright and swallow the loss.

[Rugged_1]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Thundercok

What a bunch of whining children. You pussies make me sick.

GIMME GIMME GIMME

your mom's pussy makes ME sick