Well.. what can I say?

[TNT]

First of all, I want to thank Rexxie for publishing my article, thanks to Giodanna also for finishing it off. (check www.bf1942online.com for his great article )


I wanted to show with this article what I think about teamkillers. Its quite hard subject IMHO, but this sums it up quite well.

I really hope you enjoy it.

Regards, TNT

[Grayhawk]

great artical .....but i still wanna pump those damn tker's full of led

[CJMello63]

Good article there TNT.

[Tyrion]

In regards to the EA servers.I have played the EA servers almost exclusively since I tried the demo for the first time, which was about a week ago I think.I tried an FF ON server once, and logged off after 5 minutes.A lot of bored players, and indeed it doesn't take much to ruin the gaming experience.But I don't think it's such a big problem on the backfire servers.Sure, the system has it's flaws, but TK'ing seems rather limited in my experience.

I do remember one time though, when a player- who seemed rather irritated with the world in general- was laying mines on the carrier runway.This effectively prevented the japs from getting any planes in the air, because he would manage to respawn and plant new mines before anyone could take off (after the previous pilots had blown up and killed him in the process).
Anyway, as I was waiting for a plane myself, I proceded to TK him, as I found his behavior quite annoying.Naturally this only angered him further, and he started calling me ugly names, and with the greatest sincerity admitted that he hated me.Still, I managed to discover that he was really just annoyed with the "Fucking spawn campers", which, I believe, was the heart of the matter.But to my great disappointment I realized that it was too late to talk him out of it, and when I told him he was ruining the game for everyone, he bluntly stated that I could go fuck myself.Fair enough.With such convincing arguments I knew I could do nothing further and withdrew from the scene.

Still this is the only real destructive team player I've seen on a backfire server (ok, admittedly I don't spend much time on the carrier usually).

The regular FF OFF servers are quite good.Sure it detracts from the realism not to have friendly fire on, and alot of hardcore players will probably stay away simply for that reason.But if you can get past that, it's a lot of fun.

-Tyrion

[maverick514]

jeez, that was great, almost made me cry..... well not that far.. but yea i know how you feel. I always talk about how I hate TK'ers, and sometimes I get so feed up with them, that I start to tk.... yea, but now, when I wil see a tk'er, i will do what you said, see if it works, I am usually a medic, so if I can get close enough without him tking me, maybe he will wake up inside, gj on the promotion though, command sergeant, has a nice ring to it!

[TNT]

Um, thanks for the replies guys.

@Tyrion: Well, the Backfire servers have been quite rude me then. Almost half of the people positions between me and the runway when i try to takeoff. I get killed because the lose energy sticking in front of the plane. That is, well in one word, frustrating. But generally teamkilling has been eliminated there quite well. (though empty jeeps are a headache when running over. agh.)

@maverick514: Thanks for the positive feedback! I see you understanded my point: It doesn't really lead to anything when popping the TK's, that is what they want, to express your frustration, but when they see that others don't really care from it, and even heal the guy, he will understand the meaning of the game: Teamworking. He can "wake up", like I stated.

Edit: Oh yeah, I like the CSM rank also very much. Its my fav from these all ones. (Great Work one these Jaks, they're all nice. )

Anyway, cheers from the replies and feel free to continue!

[MrMan]

Rite on man

[Docastillo]

Like I said be4, great article

Great article :P

[Li Shenron]

Ofcourse it's nice but I was somewhat stunned by the following remark

and the bulk of the players are left alone into the EA Servers - the average players, the newbs, and the teamkillers..

I wouldn't rate me an avarage player but still I find it very hard to get acces to the private servers...our clan server is broken and since that I have to play on public EA servers

Hey... I'm new to the forum (but not to CE or BF..) I think the take home message of your article is dead on... if you want to stop TKing you have to change the way the TK'ers play. If they are bored, you give them a job. If they don't know how to do the job, you show them by example. Killing them only adds to the bloodlust. A TK'er would be a great asset if they could be "turned". Think of them as psychotic soldiers, foaming at the mouth, eyes darting left to right, looking for ANYTHING to kill who just need to be pointed in the right direction.
If they are good enough to kill us "decent" players when we are expecting it, they must be good enough to do some damage for us.

On the other hand, some jackasses never learn. It then becomes the servers responsibility to deal with the problem. The issue then is that many peeps that run servers only know the bare minimum to host and are unaware of how to kick said jackasses. SERVERS NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING if they intend to host a quality game. Anyway, enough crap from me

[Jakal]

Thanks TNT! i hope you like them, at least thats what theyre for

Well, about TKers: i think the way to solve all problems would be a serveroption that vehicles being used by your teammates cant be hurt by other teammates. I think thats ok, i mean, yeah, its unrealistic, but do you prefer having a hard time to even get to the island, or do you want a smooth battle with a little less realism that you wont even recognize.

I think thats the only way. Trying to change ppl? i gave that up a long time ago.

[stahl]

Regarding what happened to TNT, getting banned from a server and then kicked out of a clan -- that's just plain stupid. It certainly wasn't his mistake if it happened as innocently as he described it. Either 1) they didn't like him in the first place and needed a reason to get him out, or 2) they were a very immature clan with poor communication.

And regarding TKing, let's see whether the multiplayer demo patch and the full version of the game will implement a fully functional voting system. That would make things a lot easier.

To be honest, the "file a complain" system that RTCW uses seems to be working fairly well.

A combination of the two would be great: The server should keep track of a player's team kills. The more team kills a player has, the fewer people should be required to vote "yes" in order to get that guy kicked.

Variants could also include the ratio of enemies killed vs. team mates killed. That way TKs would be forced to help at least a little bit here and there.

So let's recap.

- the ability to vote to kick/ban a team killer
- taking into account the ratio of team kills vs. legit kills
- combined with the ability to file complaints


Wouldn't this be almost fool proof?

When a vote is issued, it should display the current players stats.
Maybe the server could even suggest what should be voted.

Like so:

Vote initiated to kick RectumPokingJoy

Enemy Kills: 5
Team Kills: 14

RectumPokingJoy has killed 11 team mates within the last 60 seconds.
There is a 93% chance this player is a team killer.

Press F11 to vote Yes / kick this player.
Press F12 to vote No / NOT kick this player.

Votes - Yes: 8 No: 1

How about a MOD that bans the shytehead after shall we say 3 tks by IP address. This may be a bit harsh cause some are not intentional and may end up banning good players with a bad aim. But we have to do something to keep the game fun the rest of us who prefer tactics and good teamwork instead of just waxing everyone in the spawn.


Just a thought, any modders care to take this on. I think it just needs to refer to the - code of the score and when it ticks 3 times negative, host computer applys the ban.player.IP or somthing like that.

[TNT]

1.

Originally Posted by Li Shenron

wouldn't rate me an avarage player but still I find it very hard to get acces to the private servers...our clan server is broken and since that I have to play on public EA servers

I am meaning that most of "pros" don't like the EA servers, but you're a exception, because you almost have to. Feel Sorry for u.

2.

Originally Posted by Jakal

Well, about TKers: i think the way to solve all problems would be a serveroption that vehicles being used by your teammates cant be hurt by other teammates. I think thats ok, i mean, yeah, its unrealistic, but do you prefer having a hard time to even get to the island, or do you want a smooth battle with a little less realism that you wont even recognize.

Well yeah, but first of all: There all still a bunch of FF On servers around, and they're all messed with teamkillers. You're now describing FF Off servers, they have their own community of retards but still though, I think that EA is going to have the FF Off servers. If and when DICE is going to make a solution to the FF On-server TK problem, we should try to change the Teamkillers. Why, well its the only solution.. for now. At least IMHO. Feel free to express another way.

3.

Originally Posted by stahl

Regarding what happened to TNT, getting banned from a server and then kicked out of a clan -- that's just plain stupid. It certainly wasn't his mistake if it happened as innocently as he described it. Either 1) they didn't like him in the first place and needed a reason to get him out, or 2) they were a very immature clan with poor communication.

Well, I did, teamkill in purpose. However, I am not sure about the clans motives, because, that time i was one of the best players of that clan. Probably they kicked me still though because I was a Recruit status player, sorry didnt tell it before.(though been it for 3 weeks.)

And stahl, a great idea for a kicking system. I like it personally quite alot.

[Chib]

Just my 4 aussie cents on TKing.
Ok, for starters, ALL problems surrounding team killing can be sorted by having an active admin/mod/op or whatever you want to call it, online at all times who can tell who is trying to ruin the fun for others and team kill. I play on a local aussie server called ihug (run by my isp), and there is nearly always someone in there who has the power to kick out people - although we actually play with FF off. |:-| I prefer FF on, it's more realistic and fun, but since I'm dialup, FF off can help avert some unfortunate accidents.
I mainly play BF at lan parties, where most people know each other, or they get to know each other over the course of time there, and sometimes we get people TKing, but we just laugh and swear at them, and kill them back, so TKing can be sort of acceptable so long as your playing with friends - sometimes, it can indeed be fun to kill your friend cos he's pissing you off or for whatever other reason. :P
Hmmm, I was going to say something else, but I forgot... *shrug*

i think TKs also occur when one team runs out of spawn points. The players don't want to wait too long, so they switch sides but remain 'loyal' to the original side.

[Gunthermensch]

hi tnt, as clan member and as a friend i will tell, you: wow, you are saying what i think, sorry i didn't react so quick i was busy with my wiseass playing halo online.....

[Tyrion]

@Tyrion: Well, the Backfire servers have been quite rude me then. Almost half of the people positions between me and the runway when i try to takeoff. I get killed because the lose energy sticking in front of the plane. That is, well in one word, frustrating. But generally teamkilling has been eliminated there quite well. (though empty jeeps are a headache when running over. agh.)

I don't doubt you for one minute.I play infantry first and foremost though, so I do not notice the problems you're describing.I don't want to spend my time waiting for a plane to spawn and subsequently getting "sniped" by some jackass.If no one else is around, and I feel like getting shot down by AA guns 30 seconds later, well sure

and the bulk of the players are left alone into the EA Servers - the average players, the newbs, and the teamkillers..

Well, as much as I dislike being marked as an average as well Li, the statement holds an element of truth.But, as often as one will notice a great percentage of the server population being newbies, there'll also often be a good number of 'average' players on.

I'm curious though, how can someone spot a hardcore player if such a one should present himself on an EA server?Would he get a 60-0 score?
No offense TNT, but you sound just a bit elitist.

Ok, for starters, ALL problems surrounding team killing can be sorted by having an active admin/mod/op or whatever you want to call it, online at all times

I think that's right on the money.




-Tyrion

I won't critique the article. I will simply say this, its totally up to each player whether or not they teamkill. If they do so, they should be willing to take the consequences. If being bored, lazy, curious or just plain out to give it a try is supposed to be an excuse, its a feeble one. Its really just a question of rudeness. The anonymity of the internet has allowed some to act in a way that in the real world would be too rude to be tolerated in any forum. If I would not allow this level of rudeness in my house, why should I tolerate it on my server?

On my server, if you teamkill (or other acts of deep stupidity and rudeness) you get banned. End of story. Not for two hours, two days, two weeks or two months - forever. I (or someone I know) has to observe the behavior and it has to clearly be an intentional act. We all know what I am talking about here. People who get into a tank and take shots at friendly aircraft or vehicles. Or spawn as an anti-tank guy and do the same. Or maybe my personal favorite, driving a vehicle onto the airfield and either leaving it in the way, or running it into another aircraft while the driver jumps out to get into a second aircraft.

There are too many people out there that want to play the game for me to take lots of time out to manage a ban list of people who have earned the right to be banned.

The only part of my server that gets backed up several times a day is the banned list. In fact, I even brought my ban list over from my old DoD server. Imagine the surprise of some folks who emailed me about never having been on my BF1942 server, so they could not have teamkilled and my reply that they were carried over from my DoD server!

As a server admin, I pride myself on having a server that does not tolerate any action that reduces the enjoyment of that server. Most of the time, if my server is running there is an admin there keeping watch. At first, there were so many idiots coming onto the server, I had to spend all my time jumping back and forth from team to team and ban people that were going TK crazy. Its been a couple of weeks now and I have a very long banned list and a pretty good core group of people who log onto my server, play well, politely and have a good time.

So forgive me if I stop turning the other cheek for people who are really not interested in treating other players with any kind of respect and are only interested in the brand of fun that comes from the expense of others.

Thats just my 2 cents, TK'ng is not some syndrome or illness that we need to treat with kindness and compassion. When these folks show up, we simply need to ban them until they realize that they either behave, or slowly limit their chances of playing the game on public servers.

Truman Ash

Server: "Trumans Dedicated Server" Usually operating from 3PM - 10PM Pacific Time